User talk:Kc kennylau

Welcome to ProofWiki! Since you're new, you may want to check out the general help page. It's the best first stop to see how things are done (next to reading proofs, of course!). Please feel free to contribute to whichever area of mathematics interests you, either by adding new proofs, or fixing up existing ones. If you have any questions please feel free to contact one of the administrators, or post your question on the questions page.

Here are some useful pages to help get you started:
 * Community Portal - To see what needs to be done, and keep up to date with the community.
 * Recent Changes - To keep up with what's new, and what's being added.
 * Check out our house style if you are keen on contributing.
 * Main Page talk - This is where most of the main discussions regarding the direction of the site take place. If you have any ideas, please share them!

Cheers! prime mover (talk) 16:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Refactoring
Please don't do any more refactoring jobs till you have learned what is needed to be done. --prime mover (talk) 10:21, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Uh, sorry and ok. By the way, is refactoring splitting pages to smaller pages and renaming them to "Corollary", "Proof 1", "Proof 2", etc? --Kc kennylau (talk) 10:24, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * And maybe you could create a page called Refactoring teaching newbies like me how to refactor (and any other processes as well). --Kc kennylau (talk) 10:26, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Because I got the wrong meaning of refactoring in the category description: Usually this means being split into several pages (probably as subpages transcluded into a master page). --Kc kennylau (talk) 10:33, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * We haven't gotten round to that (and in fact, it is probably good that newbies do not concern themselves with site-structural maintenance tasks; that's a different discussion altogther). There are many conventions regarding it that currently reside only in my and PM's head, which is indeed somewhat unfortunate. Once you've seen us do a few dozen, you'll get the hang of it.


 * Refactoring is indeed partially the splitting of larger pages into smaller ones. However, we like our pages to be self-contained and make sense, so there are some additional conventions. In our lingo, refactoring can also mean "there is a large project spanning a potentially large amount of pages which needs considerable time and thought devoted to it, and should ideally be completed in a single dash". But anyway, I'm not going to try and explain all that right now. Just one piece of advice: should you refactor, and be unsure about an uncommon situation, ask us. This prevents frustration. &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 11:44, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that perhaps you can give us some examples of pages that you have refactored to teach use how to refactor. Should you not be able to find any, you can still teach us how to refactor by words, instead of just leaving that thought in your mind. --Kc kennylau (talk) 12:16, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I think that perhaps you could first try to familiarise yourself with the site-specific house style rules by reading the relevant help sections, by keeping track of our changes to your (and others') contributions, and by generally browsing the site. Perhaps in a few weeks/months, we'll reconsider. Nonetheless -- let me stress this -- your eagerness and enthusiasm are greatly appreciated. &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 13:09, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I wanna ask Prime.mover how can I learn how to refactor if you don't allow me to refactor? --Kc kennylau (talk) 23:53, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Please see the relevant section of the Frequently Asked Questions page, as this has come up before.


 * To put it bluntly, we request that refactoring work is not undertaken by new contributors.


 * I note that we can't actually stop you from taking on refactoring work, except by blocking you from contributing altogether, and that's something we would rather not do. But from the results of the work you have already done, it is clear that you have not yet garnered the appropriate overview of how our pages adhere to house style.


 * There have been contributors who have immediately grasped the concepts of our house style and write style-perfect pages practically straight away. We note that not everyone has those skills. But till you have taken on the house style discipline, please respect our request, as it causes more work than it saves us. --prime mover (talk) 10:20, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you for adding a new section in the FAQ just for me. I am very touched. I promise I won't do any maintenance until I reach 1000 edits. --Kc kennylau (talk) 11:14, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It wan't just for you. As I say, this issue has come up before. --prime mover (talk) 14:14, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

We don't do forgiveness
"Forgive me for embarking on this refactoring task".

Please respect our requests. I understand your enthusiasm for whatever it is you're enthusiastic about, but I really would prefer you not to embark on refactoring. Please do not keep on asking why, and please do not keep on raising the subject.

I also appreciate that you have taken time to get to grips with house style, and pages are improving, but we still request that refactoring be done by more experienced contributors.

Be aware that in extremis you can be blocked from editing. I don't want to do this because it would ultimately be unfair, but it is still an option. --prime mover (talk) 08:46, 13 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I will improve. --kc_kennylau (talk) 10:13, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Categories
Another matter which has come up before.

Please don't initiate categories until you are more familiar with the way this site works. (a) The one you added did not conform to naming style and (b) I'm unconvinced that we really need such a category anyway.

While it is relatively easy to rename pages and set up redirects etc. in the case where pages are suboptimally named, it is not so easy to do this with categories. --prime mover (talk) 20:00, 13 July 2013 (UTC)


 * OK, I'll improve. --kc_kennylau (talk) 05:06, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Refactoring
Please do not perform any refactoring tasks. THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING. --prime mover (talk) 15:44, 14 July 2013 (UTC)


 * In the particular instance Rational Multiplication is Closed you paid no attention to the integrity of the linking of the source work. Fortunately there was no problem, as the appropriate place to leave this source citation was on the parent page, but this is not always the case. It is very easy for the flow to get lost if care is not taken in refactoring. --prime mover (talk) 15:48, 14 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry for making your angry. A few days ago, I promised you that I will not perform any more refactoring task. Therefore, I feel obligated to tell you that I considered myself as merging my proof into Rational Multiplication is Closed instead of refactoring, since


 * You did not put refactor there; and
 * I am not obeying house styles if I just put my proof there opening a new section without creating a new subpage.


 * I sincerely apologize to you and I hope that you understand my situation. Please do not mind if I have used some words wrongly, since English is my second language. --kc_kennylau (talk) 15:54, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Please do not do refactoring
You have been asked this before, and I am going to ask this again.

Please, if you have any respect for anyone on this site at all, please refrain from doing any refactoring. You still have to show that you have the necessary skill and experience with this site to do so. --prime mover (talk) 15:13, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * ok --kc_kennylau (talk) 15:14, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Maybe you don't understand what "refactor" means.


 * In this context it means: taking a section of one page (e.g. a proof) and moving it into a new page (usually a subpage).


 * As has been explained, there is more to it than just moving the pages about. There is other work that also needs to be done which, if it is not done, can make the links wrong.


 * As you do not understand this work, I request once more that you do not do any refactoring.


 * If you need to add a second proof to a page with an existing proof, please just add it as a second proof and (if you like) add the "refactor" template to the top of the page.


 * Again, thank you in advance for your co-operation in this matter. --prime mover (talk) 13:13, 13 September 2014 (UTC)


 * ok --kc_kennylau (talk) 13:22, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Redirect strategy
Nice work on adding these Fibonacci proofs. With some small pointers, your writing is also practically compliant with house style -- thanks for that effort.

The reason I wanted to leave you a note is because most of these "subpage" constructions (with a / in their name) have /-less redirects in place to facilitate searching, beautify our link targets, and simplify any future refactoring.

You can see if there is any such redirect in place through the "What links here" link in the Tools part of the sidebar (you know it when you see it). For example Definition:Coprime Integers redirects to Definition:Coprime/Integers.

Cheers :). &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 18:15, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Could you create a page listing the properties? i would love to see it. --kc_kennylau (talk) 23:36, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * You mean something like Properties of Fibonacci Numbers? Just create an example in your personal spoace User:kc_kennylau/Sandbox mimicking Properties of Exponential Function. For more information on the technique, see Help:Transclusion. If you meant something else, I'm sorry to have misunderstood -- in that case, please clarify. &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 15:49, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I was forbidden to do refactoring of any kind. --kc_kennylau (talk) 21:40, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * That's why I asked you to put it in your sandbox. That way, I or PM can give you some hints and rationale. When it's deemed ready, it can be moved to the main namespace. &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 16:17, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I see you're experimenting. Good. To test the onlyinclude functionality, you can create local copies as subpages of your sandbox. See my sandbox for zillions of examples. &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 16:51, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Negatively indexed Fibonacci numbers
Please expand Definition:Fibonacci Number to include negative indices, preferably according to the equation $F_{n-1} = F_{n+1} - F_n$. Can you drop a note when you've done so, so that I can review it? &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 17:03, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Categories in Redirects
Just a heads up: When redirecting a page, you can use the category mechanism just as on an ordinary page. This makes the redirects much easier to find. &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 10:23, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

DIY
That's right. Do it yourself. You are hereby granted the privilege to refactor Sine of 45 Degrees to include your new (and very nice :) ) proof. If your contributions retain the current high level, you'll probably be allowed to take on other refactoring tasks as well :). &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 15:58, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The thing is this. When you are adding a new page and designing a new proof, why not create the new page, add the transclusion and craft the page in the appropriate style in the first place? Then there would be no need for a "refactor" template.


 * I appreciate that this is at odds with what I said earlier, but when a page is already in the same style of multiple transcluded proofs, adding a new one is not actually changing the structure of what is already there. --prime mover (talk) 19:45, 2 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Whence the "DIY". It's a good exercise nonetheless. &mdash; Lord_Farin (talk) 20:14, 2 June 2015 (UTC)