User talk:TheoLaLeo

Welcome to ProofWiki! Since you're new, you may want to check out the general help page. It's the best first stop to see how things are done (next to reading proofs, of course!). Please feel free to contribute to whichever area of mathematics interests you, either by adding new proofs, or fixing up existing ones. If you have any questions please feel free to contact one of the administrators, or post your question on the questions page.

Here are some useful pages to help get you started:
 * Community Portal - To see what needs to be done, and keep up to date with the community.
 * Recent Changes - To keep up with what's new, and what's being added.
 * Check out our house style if you are keen on contributing.
 * Main Page talk - This is where most of the main discussions regarding the direction of the site take place. If you have any ideas, please share them!

Cheers! prime mover (talk) 22:37, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

joke
Apologies, but I have had to delete one of your logicians jokes because it is already there, under "Beerlogical".

No attempt has been made to gather these jokes into categories, which IMO is how it should be (it enhances the reader experience to get jokes in an unpredictable and unstructured order). --prime mover (talk) 06:46, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

No problem, I considered reading through them first to see if I'd be putting down repeats but was too lazy. --TheoLaLeo (talk) 06:48, 22 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I suggest you may want to do so, you've just entered another one we've already got. --prime mover (talk) 06:58, 22 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Ah just saw that, I'll read through --TheoLaLeo (talk) 07:00, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

on rolling back
a) If you have a new proof, then please add it as a new proof.

b) Please try and craft your edits so as to retain our house style both of visual presentation and of coding style.

c) If you can fix your editing --prime mover (talk) 20:22, 22 November 2021 (UTC)approach so as not to remove blank lines that would be top notch.


 * Apologies, I will try to read through the house style pages before doing more edits, it's a lot of info to take in. --TheoLaLeo (talk) 20:26, 22 November 2021 (UTC)


 * A good way to get to grips with our style is to study existing pages and follow. Most of them are in house style, although there may still be a few wildly non-compliant pages created by undisciplined mavericks which we are still in the process of finding and cleaning up. --prime mover (talk) 06:49, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

jech set theory
Good job taking on the Jech set theory work.

Suggestions for going forward:
 * a) It is generally a better idea to give a result page its own title, rather than as a corollary of an existing page. There are reasons for this, including:
 * 1. You can more easily find the page you want by reading the title, as the content is more likely to match the title if it is custom.
 * 2. Such a result may have a proof which takes a different approach, and hence may be a "corollary" of a completely different result.


 * b) If you need a page to be renamed, it is suboptimal to create a new page, copy everything across, and then delete the old page. This is because if you do it that way you lose all the page editing history, which is a bad thing. I realise you don't have access to the "Move" tool, because it requires "trusted user" status, which as at this moment you don't have. So the requested approach is that you use the Rename template to flag up that a given page needs to be renamed, and (assuming the request is a good one) one of the admins will do it. --prime mover (talk) 08:25, 24 November 2021 (UTC)


 * All noted. I'm currently working through Jech so I'll try to systematically add that source to pages. --TheoLaLeo (talk) 08:31, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Adding material to established pages
You have been around long enough to know how this place works. If not, then spend some time browsing.

A definition page contains a definition, and nothing but a definition. We do not include results that are derived from that definition.

In particular, we do not add results to such pages, especially when such materials already exist.

Hence I am going to reverse out the changes you made to Definition:Restricted Existential Quantifier and Definition:Restricted Universal Quantifier and request that you may want to refer to existing pages which cover the material you are adding to them. --prime mover (talk) 19:16, 26 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Fair enough about excluding results from definition pages. I see plenty of pages about negated quantifiers but none about negated restricted quantifiers. I may be missing something, but I don't see these particular results anywhere. --TheoLaLeo (talk) 23:36, 26 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Okay I see what you mean, I get what you see is missing, but I'm at a loss to understand why you really *need* the complication of using these "restricted quantifiers" in the first place. Seems like a messy and overcomplicated way of proving Smullyan's Drinking Principle in the first place. Define $P$ as being a universe. --prime mover (talk) 06:03, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Oh and while I'm about it, from your latest edit of Smullyan's Drinking Principle you can see directly why we do not allow "bare" parentheses in the house style. Please use whichever of the various custom $\LaTeX$ constructs is relevant to your need of the time. --prime mover (talk) 06:13, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * If you want I can change Smullyan's Drinking Principle to a proof without the restricted quantifiers, googling around it seems that both formulations are used on other sites. Regardless, should I add pages with the negated restricted quantifier proofs? --TheoLaLeo (talk) 06:41, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

The concept of the "restricted quantifiers" appears to me to be more a concept used in the development of the foundations of set theory, when one is establishing the properties of ZF, for example.

Using them to prove a quirky veridical paradox in logic seems to be using the "wrong" technique.

Maybe I'm being naive, but it feels inelegant and top-heavy.

Is there a way this theorem can be proved without using such heavy artillery?

I'm happy for there to exist pages to prove the negations, as long as they are on their own theorem pages, not bolted onto the existing definition pages. --prime mover (talk) 07:55, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes I'll take the restricted quantifiers out of the theorem and add the negation proofs as their own pages. --TheoLaLeo (talk) 08:12, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Aah! Hits the spot. Allow me to refactor. --prime mover (talk) 09:23, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * There. Perfect. --prime mover (talk) 09:46, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Nice I like what you did there, that page is really thorough and accessible at multiple levels now --TheoLaLeo (talk) 17:11, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

the moral of the story is: don't remove stuff just because you know that the material you provide is eleventy-billion times better than what it replaces. If you have a different approach, place it alongside. --prime mover (talk) 22:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)


 * fair enough --TheoLaLeo (talk) 22:14, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

using "permanent redirects"
You will have noticed that there are many definitions which are implemented in subpages of parent pages, and as such have titles implemented as page/subpage etc.

It is the intention that all such subpages have redirects which do not have slashes in them whose name encapsulates the fullness of the intent of the page title.

It is highly-recommended-to-mandatory that all such "permanent redirects" be used in preference to the full ugly end-page title.

This makes refactoring easier. --prime mover (talk) 07:49, 28 November 2021 (UTC)