User talk:GFauxPas/Archive1

Change to MathWorld citation template
I noticed (based on One-to-One and Strictly Between) that some pages on MathWorld are credited to different authors from Eric Weisstein, and so require that author to be included in the citation.

I have fixed the template (which is now "MathWorld" not "Mathworld", that's just me tidying up) so as to be able to include the author (which, if not given, defaults to the "Weisstein, Eric W." format as per normal).

What you need to do is add "author=author-name" and "authorpage=author-pagename" where "author-name" is the displayname of the author and "author-pagename" is the name of the html file on MathWorld (not including the full path, not including the extension).

An example:

which gives:
 *  



If the page is given as written by "Weisstein, Eric W." then you should not add the "author" and "authorpage" tags.

I have included this info in the usage section of the Template:MathWorld page itself, but I'm bringing it to your attention because I know you've been active in using it.

Chx. --prime mover 02:55, 31 December 2011 (CST)

Theorem Holds in All Models
Anyone know the page name to the theorem that if a theorem is a theorem the theorem has to hold in all models theorem theorem theorem? I can't find it theorem --GFauxPas 08:30, 12 February 2012 (EST)


 * That usually goes by the name of 'Soundness Theorem' (i.e., anything you can prove is true (where true means 'true in all models')). --Lord_Farin 18:59, 12 February 2012 (EST)

Differentiability of Functions of >1 variable
Larson's definition of differentiablity for functions of more than one variable is very non-intuitive (I'm going to use $f:x,y \mapsto f(x,y)$ for ease of asking the question, though the question is for any number of variables):


 * f is differentiable at $(x,y) = (x_0,y_0) \iff \exists \Delta z:$


 * $\Delta z = f_x(x_0,y_0)\Delta x + f_y(x_0,y_0)\Delta y + \varepsilon_1 \Delta x + \varepsilon_2 \Delta y$

such that $\varepsilon_1, \varepsilon_2 \to 0$ as $(\Delta x, \Delta y) \to (0,0)$.

Is there an equivalent definition that's more intuitive? Why not define "differentiable" as "differentiable iff all partial derivatives exist"? --GFauxPas 12:42, 28 March 2012 (EDT)


 * As to your last question: Because it isn't enough; derivatives in all directions need to exist.
 * A general definition can be given as follows:


 * A mapping $f: \R^n \to \R^p$ (or defined on some subset of $\R^n$) is said to be differentiable at $a \in \R^n$ iff:
 * There exists a linear mapping $Df(a):\R^n\to\R^p$ (that is, simply put, a matrix) such that:
 * $\displaystyle \lim_{\left\Vert{h}\right\Vert\to 0, h \in \R^n} \frac {\left\Vert{f(a+h)-f(a)-Df(a)h}\right\Vert} {\left\Vert{h}\right\Vert} = 0$


 * This comes down to the existence of a linear approximation $Df(a)$ of $f$ near $a$ which is good enough to make the limit zero (for comparison, you can take $n=p=1$, it will reduce to the familiar expression for $f:\R\to\R$). Note that in the fraction, the norm in the numerator is in $\R^p$, while the one in the denominator is in $\R^n$. Note that $Df(a)h$ means 'the mapping $Df(a)$ evaluated at $h \in \R^n$', not your standard multiplication (well, they are the same iff $n=p=1$; alternatively, this is matrix multiplication with a vector)). Note that this is different from existence of all partial derivatives since the $h \in \R^n$ need to be in a sphere around zero, not just on the coordinate axes. If it is not entirely clear, please say so, and I will demonstrate by means of a small example. --Lord_Farin 14:35, 28 March 2012 (EDT)


 * Alternatively, see this, pp.792 --Lord_Farin 14:40, 28 March 2012 (EDT)


 * How incredibly convenient that in today's Linear Algebra class I first learned about linear maps as matrices! An example would be great. --GFauxPas 15:11, 28 March 2012 (EDT)


 * I thought that the existence of derivatives in all directions does not necessarily ensure differentiability. –Abcxyz (talk | contribs) 20:50, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
 * Correct, but they need to exist for differentiability to possibly apply. I will hopefully get to the example later today. --Lord_Farin 04:42, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Okay, so let $f: \R^{2n}\simeq\R^n \times \R^n \to \R, (x,y)\mapsto \left\langle{x,y}\right\rangle$.

Say we want to know if $f$ is differentiable at $(a,b)\in\R^n\times\R^n$; then let $h = (h_1,h_2)\in\R^{2n}$, and compute:
 * $f(a,b)-f(a-h_1,b-h_2) = \left\langle{a,b}\right\rangle - \left\langle{a-h_1,b-h_2}\right\rangle = \left\langle{h_1,b}\right\rangle + \left\langle{a,h_2}\right\rangle - \left\langle{h_1,h_2}\right\rangle$

Using Cauchy-Schwarz, the last term can be estimated to $\left\Vert{h}\right\Vert^2$ as the norms of $h_1,h_2$ are dominated by that of $h$. What remains is linear in $h$ (a sum of inner products). Thus, putting $Df((a,b)) = (h\mapsto \left\langle{h_1,b}\right\rangle + \left\langle{a,h_2}\right\rangle)$ we compute the limit to go to zero (by the Cauchy-Schwarz argument).

There is a theorem (not too hard) establishing that the linear mapping $Df((a,b))$ is unique; hence conclude that it equals the given expression (compare the case that $n=1$ for further insights). Hopefully, this slightly nontrivial example gives a bit of insight. --Lord_Farin 06:42, 29 March 2012 (EDT)


 * Also, when considering $f:\R\to\R$, the standard derivative $f'$ is obtained by the canonical identification $\operatorname{Lin}(\R,\R)\simeq \R,Df(a)\mapsto Df(a)1 = f'(a)$. Because $Df(a)1$ is also often denoted $D_af(1)$, this is the origin of the possible confusion I expressed earlier. --Lord_Farin 06:45, 29 March 2012 (EDT)


 * This is significantly harder than what we're doing in Calc III but I'm getting something out of it, thanks! I'm not going to say that I get it completely, but I'm okay with that- I haven't even finished Calc III yet. Is this definition equivalent to Larson's for $\R^2 \to \R$? --GFauxPas 09:21, 29 March 2012 (EDT)


 * I would say so. In matrix form, $Df(a)$ will always be the matrix of partial derivatives (the Jacobian) with respect to the chosen basis. That means, for $\R^2\to\R$, that it becomes a row matrix $(f_x(a), f_y(a))$ (which upon multiplication by the column vector $(\Delta x, \Delta y)$ becomes the first part of Larson's expression; the $\varepsilon$s correspond to the term $\left\langle{h_1,h_2}\right\rangle$ in the example). It would be rather awkward had Larson an incompatible definition of something basic like differentiation. --Lord_Farin 09:45, 29 March 2012 (EDT)


 * I have a much better understanding of Larson's def'n now after discussing it with my Linear Algebra professor.


 * Side note: Has anyone seen $f^{\,'}_x(x,y), f^{\,''}_{xy}(x,y)$ for $\dfrac {\partial z}{\partial x}, \dfrac {\partial^2 z}{\partial y \partial x}$? I keep on wanting to put a prime on it --GFauxPas 10:48, 30 March 2012 (EDT)


 * No, that notation isn't used. You have to know what $f$ is derived with respect to, which is why subscripts are used, and it's strictly instead of primes, which is strictly reserved for total derivative, not partial. --prime mover 13:10, 30 March 2012 (EDT)


 * You mean that $f'$ is seriously used for $Df$ (or $df$, if in differential geometry)?! That's new to me. --Lord_Farin 17:09, 30 March 2012 (EDT)


 * Think so. May be wrong. Point is, it is never used for partial drivs. I think I met it in the context of fluid mechanics but I misremember the details. --prime mover 18:09, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

Definite Integral Definition
Regarding the "subdivision $P$" in Definition:Definite Integral, what would the subdivision be if it's a function from $\R^n$ to $\R$?

Larson's definitions all involve an alternative definition that is disliked by proofwiki members because convergence is more finicky:


 * $\displaystyle \lim_{\Vert \Delta \Vert \to 0} \sum_a^b f\left({x_i}\right) \ \Delta x_i$

what's the equivalent definition of the supremum of a subdivision in higher dimensions? I.e.,


 * $\displaystyle \int \int \int_Q f\left({x,y,z}\right) \ \mathrm dV = \lim_{\Vert \Delta \Vert \to 0} \sum_a^b f\left({x_i}\right) \ \Delta V_i$

where $\Delta V_i = \Delta x_i \Delta y_i \Delta z_i$, $Q \subset \R^3$

how would you convert that to an definition analogous to what PW has for a definite single integral? --GFauxPas 12:22, 4 May 2012 (EDT)


 * Take a look at Definition:Real Interval at the section that mentions multi-dimensional intervals. But I suspect that a complete analysis of the problem at the same level as done for single-dimension definite intervals may not be the correct way to go. Long time since I did this, but I think beyond an intuitive level (slices, soldiers and croutons) there is no need to go into the same level of detail - having established the result in 1 dimension, expanding it to more dimensions is an inductive process from there, or something. --prime mover 18:07, 4 May 2012 (EDT)

Linear Algebra

 * Well, do you have any suggested texts? --GFauxPas 15:13, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
 * Depends on what you want to do. If you want to learn how vectors work and how to pass exams and use this as a boost towards the basics of applied mathematics and physics, then the ones you have are probably adequate. If, however, you want to contribute towards a website of teaching materials which provides an axiomatic derivation of the current status of pure mathematics, then I'd take a good long look at Seth Warner's Modern Algebra, Paul Halmos's Naive Set Theory, Hartley & Hawkes' Rings, Modules and Linear Algebra, and probably for some more background Clark's Elements of Modern Algebra and Steen & Seebach's Counterexamples in Topology. For something really basic and accessible on abstract algebra try Whitelaw's Introduction to Abstract Algebra, or there's R.B Ash's Abstract Algebra. There's a large number of books referenced on the Books page of this site, and on the community portal there are plenty of links to browse. --prime mover 15:30, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
 * Alright then, I should look into those. Until then, I'd appreciate you continuing to point out when Fraleigh or Larson is being sub-PW standards --GFauxPas 15:46, 6 May 2012 (EDT)
 * No worries. I'm delighted to have been invited to let my prejudices hang out for all to see. --prime mover 16:00, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

Here is the Fraleigh / Beauregard page on Amazon:
 * http://www.amazon.com/Linear-Algebra-Third-Edition-Fraleigh/dp/0201526751/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

You might be interested to read the comments. There were marginally fewer 1-star comments than 5-star ones, but only because the latter were beefed up by instances of peopel who think a review of a book is for expressing how happy you are with the delivery service ...

The verdict, then: a good-ish reference work, but not good for learning the subject from new. --prime mover 10:47, 7 May 2012 (EDT)

Tableau Notation
Is there a way to write a tableau proof in such a format as this? I find it the easiest way to read a tableau proof, but maybe it's not doable in LaTeX? http://i50.tinypic.com/2urm4hf.jpg --GFauxPas 09:06, 17 June 2012 (EDT)


 * The language of LaTeX allows for infinite diversity; the main problem here is that we have to deal with MathJax's implementation, which is more limited. To employ such structures one would generally define a complete style file, defining an environment like \begin{tableauproof} or st. like that.
 * Regardless of whether it is possible, I have some doubts concerning how useful this language is when multiple proof trees combine together (like with $\lor$-elimination). It seems a tad hard to make such trees with equally appealing presentation. Besides even that conceptual proble, we have the necessity to be able to refer to other pages in-line, by means of hyperlinks. This means of reference is IMO at least as important as an aesthetically satisfying presentation.
 * On the positive side, I share your desire for a more appealing presentation of proof trees. I have decided that I will (in due time, when PredCalc is restyled and can take amendments) try to incorporate sequent calculus, a system I have always liked due to its expressiveness and clarity of assumptions at each point. --Lord_Farin 09:43, 17 June 2012 (EDT)


 * I discovered, in which the presentation of tableau proofs receives a prominent place. From there I researched to work out how to write the appropriate LaTeX, and discovered how fiddly it was. I reverted to the technique given in , which is the pedestrian and clunky (but ultimately easy to maintain) system which I posted here.
 * IMO it's not worth the candle to try and emulate some slick technique of presenting tableau proofs, but then I won't prevent anyone from trying - as long as they explain in full detail exactly how such a presentation functions. --prime mover 12:11, 17 June 2012 (EDT)


 * It needn't be too hard in TeX (given a .sty file) but as MathJax is not a full-fledged TeX parser we are limited in both practical and pedagogical manners. --Lord_Farin 17:22, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

Sampling
Worth putting information about types of sampling on PW, or is it too soft-sciency? --GFauxPas (talk) 17:26, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Somebody is going to have to cover the borders of mathematical inquiry at some point; with those borders I mean generally mathematical physics and statistics (the latter not to be confused with measure theory, which also has important applications in functional analysis). So I would say that it is fine to include such (but I'd rather not write it). --Lord_Farin (talk) 17:33, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Very important to do a good job on statistics as it's the most directly relevant area of mathematics to the real world. Everybody needs to understand statistics a little bit otherwise they will be walked all over by politicians all the time. So if you're up for it GFP (I gather stats is very much more your field than e.g. abstract algebra) then go to it with a will. --prime mover (talk) 18:57, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I have experienced in the past few pre-election weeks (results due later tonight, I'm very anxious) in the Netherlands that statistics matters little, since politicians tend to mess up the facts (purposefully, sometimes) even when not cleverly dodging the truth with speeches full of statistics jargon. --Lord_Farin (talk) 19:22, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Can someone with computer science textbooks make a definition page for random number generator, please? --GFauxPas (talk) 18:35, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Classes (Descr. Stat.)
The next thing I'd like to put up on PW is the concept of what Brase & Brase call classes. There are several issues I need to decide how to deal with, though, so I'd like the opinion of other PWers.

The first issue is how to name things like these. (Quick definitions without much formality or precision just to get the question across)

Def'n
Let $D$ be data about a finite population, or about a sample, such that the variable under consideration is:


 * Quantitative


 * Is described by numbers in $\N$, $\Z$, $\Q$, or $\R$.

Let the data under discussion be sorted into an interval.

Let there be a subdivision of $D$.

Then each interval of the form $[x_i..x_{i+1}]$ is called a class iff:


 * Every datum is placed in exactly one subinterval (subinterval doesn't have a page AFAIK, btw, one should probably be added)

I'm tempted to disambiguate Definition:Class and then add this as its own definition, but I can also transclude it into one of the interval pages.

Similarly, def'ns like:

A class mark is a midpoint of a class.

Need a place to go. I could give them their own pages, but as they're not particularly important on their own I should probably do the same thing I did to Definition:Strata. Then we would have transcluded transclusions.

Also, some concepts are not given explicit names in the text, but will probably come up often enough that I should give them names:

An empty class is a class without data.

A class is normal if each class has the same class width.

Then I would do something like Definition:Magma of Sets?

Thanks guys. --GFauxPas (talk) 13:01, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It sounds justified to disambiguate class for this purpose. I would place class mark and others as subpages of this new def of class (as for Strata); the others deserve their own pages. Mind that there could be confusion about empty class. If you can't find anything like 'normal class' in any of your sources (including the interwebs) an innovation is justified. Thus, it appears that I agree with you on all points. --Lord_Farin (talk) 13:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Couldn't find names for those things in other sources. Can you think of a better name than "empty class"?


 * So an 'empty class' is simply one subinterval which happens not to be containing any samples? In that case, empty class seems suitable enough. --Lord_Farin (talk) 21:45, 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Looks to me like a disambiguation is the way to go. Your other suggestions seem sound enough - as long as we don't overdo the use of transclusions (the usual technique of course being a link in an "also see"). --prime mover (talk) 05:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)


 * In my view, terminology that one is bound to use often in correlation with a definition, if it consists of only a few lines, should be transcluded onto the page. For example, we wouldn't want people to read the definition of Definition:Real Interval without reading about end points as well. I did not intend to give the impression that I wanted "empty class" and "normal class" to be transcluded onto the class page. Coming to speak of "normal class", it appears strange that on the one hand, a class is one of the subintervals, and on the other you propose to use "normal class" for what appears to be "normal subdivision". Please give this some more thought. --Lord_Farin (talk) 08:15, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I like "normal subdivision". Is that made up? --GFauxPas (talk) 10:53, 28 September 2012 (UTC)


 * If you mean that I came up with it myself, the answer is yes. --Lord_Farin (talk) 13:51, 28 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I think "normal subdivision" is worth coining on PW, then, and I would use that definition if I needed it for classes. --GFauxPas (talk) 14:15, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Differentiable - Citations
I have refactored this massive and complicated page down into a set of manageable subpages, each with one topic each. Each one of these contains a citation to the Larson, Hostetler etc. book, which I believe is one of yours.

Would you be able to go through each of the pages and sort out which ones are cited in which (if any) section of that source work?

Thx. --prime mover (talk) 08:11, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Is the the only thing the "sort out citations" thing is about, or should I leave those up there for another reason? --GFauxPas (talk) 12:33, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


 * yep, that's right. Once they've been checked the WIP can be removed. --prime mover (talk) 19:57, 30 September 2012 (UTC)


 * ... please don't forget the various Definition:Differentiable/Vector-Valued Function and Definition:Differentiable/Real-Valued Function pages, some of which I'm sure came from Larson, Hostetler etc. in the first place. --prime mover (talk) 19:59, 30 September 2012 (UTC)